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My name is Hallan Turrek. This is my blog.

Tuesday, June 30, 2009

Eve Blog Banter #9: Why Won't You Die?

Welcome to the ninth installment of the EVE Blog Banter and its first contest, the monthly EVE Online blogging extravaganza created by CrazyKinux. The EVE Blog Banter involves an enthusiastic group of gaming bloggers, a common topic within the realm of EVE Online, and a week to post articles pertaining to the said topic. The resulting articles can either be short or quite extensive, either funny or dead serious, but are always a great fun to read! Any questions about the EVE Blog Banter should be directed here. Check out other EVE Blog Banter articles at the bottom of this post!

"Last month Ga'len asked us which game mechanic we would most like to see added to EVE. This month Keith "WebMandrill" Nielson proposes to reverse the question and ask what may be a controversial question: Which game mechanic would you most like to see removed completelyfrom EVE and why? I can see this getting quite heated so lets keep it civil eh?"

Dying is easy. It's living that's hard.
Luke Spencer

Everything in the Eve universe that can kill you can die. A Titan is scaring the crap out of you? A huge NPC spawn from a level 5? A Rifter with a warp scrambler that's holding you down for that gang that's coming for your skin? POS guns? It's all killable in Eve. That's one of the beautiful parts of eve, anything that can kill you can itself be killed.

Well almost anything. Enter the Sentry Gun:

This almost never actually happens.

So that begs the question, why? It's an exception to the rule in eve, and it's also an integral part of living in low-sec. Most high sec dwellers don't even notice or care about sentry guns, but in low-sec, they protect the gates from the predilections of pirates. As soon as a non-criminal is fired upon by anyone, they spring to life and defend truth, justice, and the CONCORD way.

Anyone that runs is a pirate. Anyone that stands still is a well disciplined pirate.

So these sentry guns begin to thoroughly kick ass. They've got huge damage potential across all damage types, and are impossible to kill. In effect, it's a built in advantage for the non-criminals of the game on gates and stations. It can be used to lull people into a false sense of security at times, and at other times it's the tipping point in a battle.

So why not take away their indestructibility? It's at least worth talking about. What would be the advantages and disadvantages?

Pro: Making them destructible would make low-sec more interesting. We're not talking about making them easily killed, at least a battleship should be required to take them down. You could clear them out before an engagement to even things up for your side. In effect it makes things more interesting because it gives you a bunch of options for engagements. On average things stay the same because it takes a special effort to take them down, but eventually they'll respawn.

Cons: Pirates would be getting a boost from this, and a fair portion of the player base don't like pirates. It might make it easier to gate camp, but gate camping happens now.

In the end ask yourself this: Why shouldn't they be killable?

Beneath this mask there is more than machinery.

Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Turrek,

and ideas are bulletproof.

Oh. Totally didn't know. Sorry about that.

Please don't kill me.

Other Banters:
  1. Diary of a Space Jockey, Blog Banter: BE GONE!
  2. EVE Newb, (EVE) Remove You
  3. Miner With Fangs, Blog Banter - It's the Scotch
  4. The Eden Explorer, Blog Banter: The Map! The Map!
  5. The Wandering Druid of Tranquility, "Beacons, beacons, beacons, beacons, beacons, mushroom, MUSHROOM!!!"
  6. Inner Sanctum of the Ninveah, Kill the Rats
  7. Mercspector @ EVE, Scotty
  8. EVE's Weekend Warrior, EVE Blog Banter #9
  9. A Merry Life and a Short One, Eve Blog Banter #9: Why Won't You Die?
  10. Into the unknown with gun and camera, Blog Banter – The Hokey Cokey
  11. The Flightless Geek, EVE Blog Banter #9: Remove a Game Mechanic
  12. Sweet Little Bad Girl, Blog Banter 9: Who is Nibbling at My House?
  13. One Man and His Spaceship, Blog Banter 9: What could you do without?
  14. Life in Low Sec, EVE Blog Banter #9: Stop Tarnishing My Halo
  15. Cle Demaari: Citizen, Blog Banter #9: Training for all my men!
  16. A Mule in EVE, He who giveth, also taketh away?
  17. Dense Veldspar, Blog Banter 9
  18. Morphisat’s Blog, Blog Banter #9 – Randomness Be Gone !
  19. Facepalm's Blog, EVE Blog Banter #9: What a new pilot could do without
  20. Memoires of New Eden, You're Fired
  21. Kyle Langdon's Journeys in EVE, EVE Blog Banter #9 Titans? What's a Titan?
  22. Achernar, The gates! The gates are down!
  23. Speed Fairy, EVE Blog Banter #9: Down with Downtime!
  24. I am Keith Neilson, EVE Blog Banter #9-F**K Da Police
  25. Ripe Lacunae, The UI… Where do I begin… (Eve Blog Banter #9)
  26. Clown Punchers, EvE Blogs: What game mechanic would you get rid of?
  27. Estel Arador Corp Services, You've got mail
  28. Epic Slant, Let Mom and Pop Play: EVE Blog Banter #9
  29. Deaf Plasma's EVE Musings, Blog Banter #9 - Removal of Anchoring Delay of POS modules
  30. Podded Once Again, Blog Banter #9 - Do we really need to go AFK?
  31. Postcards from EVE, 2009.
  32. Harbinger Zero, Blog Banter #9 – War Declarations & Sec Status
  33. Warp Scrammed, Blog Banter 9 – Never Too Fast
  34. Ecaf Ersa (EVE Mag), Can a Tractor Tractor a Can?
  35. Thoughts from an Accidental Minmatar Revolutionary, EVE Blog Banter #9 - Aggression timers, WTs and Stargates
  36. Mike Azariah, I don't put much stock in it...
  37. Rettic's Log, Blog Banter: Overview Overload
  38. A Sebiestor Scholar, [OOC] EVE Blog Banter #9: Slaves
  39. Diary of a pod pilot, [OOC] EVE blog banter #9: Because of Falcon
  40. Roc's Ramblings, Blog Banter #9 – Taking Things Slow
  41. The Gaming-Griefer, EVE Sucks, But I Love It: The Memoir of a Masochist
  42. Letrange's EVE Blog, Blog Banter #9: Bye Bye Learning Skills
  43. Lyietfinvar, Remove that monopoly
  44. Sceadugenga, Blog Banter #9
  45. Industrialist with Teeth, EVE Blog Banter #9


  1. Yeah, this is a great idea. You can shoot out the Billboard but it respawns in 20 seconds (at least that's how it used to be; maybe they changed that). So it seems to make sense you should be able to shoot out the sentry guns on gates. Not so sure if the same should hold true for stations, though.

  2. Sentry guns are the only thing besides a security status penalty that differentiates null sec from low sec.

    There has to be some significant deterrent in low sec to piracy for the random traveller. Making sentry guns easily neutralizable would turn low sec into a deathtrap beyond imagining IMHO.

    I think instead what we need is more NPC 0.0 space where pirates and neutrals can explore 0.0 space without large alliances claiming all the stations and moons, much like Syndicate and Curse.

  3. I say introduce TRACKING to these guns allowing them to actually miss and not be able to instapop a interceptor moving at 4.5kps. will this make losec more like 0.0?? Yes. will it make pvp easier in losec?? YES. will it make solo pvp easier??yes. will it remove the dettereant from pvping in losec?? NO. while they wouldnt be able to instapop a frigate they should take into account the things every ship takes into account they should be able to turn the tide in a battle one way or another but they shouldnt be as deadly as they are presently.

    With my proposed tracking changes this would allow a small gang of frigs/ceptors/assault frigs to come in and take out the guns and would then be able to camp a losec gate effectively. they would have to respawn rather quickly though. I believe the turrets themselves should also have a low sig radius(though not sure how them being stationary will effect this) so that its easier for smaller ships to kill than a lg bs gang which can tank them anyways.

  4. Interesting concept. Kill the little beggars. Hmm....and the tracking idea.

    Yeah, I like that a lot!!!

  5. Kirith, you missed my point entirely. They aren't to be easily gotten rid of. They aren't to be gotten rid of at all. I just want to see them die.

  6. In your years of pirating, there has been too much sentry guns shooting at you.

    Thus you want to see them die.

    Now more as a carebear, you'll appreciate the fact you can travel gate to gate without much hassle most of the time :P

  7. Lyiet Here,
    And I agree completely. Not only with the idea of making turrets destructible, but with the idea of adding in additional characteristics throughout EVE. Walk in station? The only people that are looking forward to that are those that already see EVE as a resource hungry chat room.
    Make it 'realistic' so that ships have to come out and replace the sentry guns. Maybe make NPC haulers and mining ships that may not actually deplete the ore in belts, but will collect ore over time. Pirates could attack those or their haulers, and get the loot from what is inside. And although the mining may not occur (or at least, be relatively rare) in lowsec, or be escorted by NPC ships, they would sport drops that could be picked up. Like heavy salvage components, ammunition (or faction ammunition...) which any pirate needs. Pirates could still get minerals they need. (Pirates need minerals? Ha!)
    But I don't mean this to add in benefits to pirates alone, but to upgrade a stagnant EVE that has so many half-finished additions on it. It would add to the scenery and the server load addition would be minimal. So much more could be done with it - I mean, heck, let people get a skill that lets the 'reprogram' a turret to fight for them, at least for a temporary time.

    On another note, I don't get what you said with your starting sentence "Everything in the Eve universe that you can kill you can die." So that has me a bit odded out.
    Awesome piccies though.

    And I don't personally practice piracy, but I'll agree to disagree.

  8. One last thing I wanted to add to my previous comment: Make it so that perhaps Pirate Salvage (from destroying sentry guns, DED ships, and so on) counteracts the salvage that we don't get in high-sec killing pirate ships. Imagine, pirates becoming a part of carebear society beyond the 'hi, I need a new ship, or hi, you're going to need a new ship' relationships.

  9. There was an extra you in the first sentence, it's annoying that I didn't catch it till just now.

  10. You just won a little something as part of the EVE Blog Banter Contest!